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July 3, 2020, 4:35 pm UTC    
December 05, 2006 03:18AM
creigs1707 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Before I respond to your post, let me take a
> little time here to explain the inspiration behind
> my ideas - it is simply this: looking at any
> image of the Giza complex (i.e. the Pyramids and
> the Great Sphinx) - whether from the air or ground
> level - I do not immediately see evidence of AE
> religous or funerary beliefs - the cultural
> elements. The 'first' thing I see and recognise
> are the geometry and symmetry - i.e. the language
> of mathematics. Is this not obvious to most
> rational people?

Are you telling me now that I'm not rational? I fully disagree with you on this one: the first thing I see is a subsequent step in ancient Egyptian mortuary architecture. The evolution from mastaba to Djoser's step pyramid and subsequent phases at Meidum, the Bent Pyramid and the Red Pyramid is so perfectly clear to me that when I look at the Giza pyramids, I see 3 distinct pyramid complexes, each building on the experience of the earlier Dynasties. The crystal clear history of the mortuary complex is the cultural aspect you're looking for. The way I see it, your mistake is that you see Giza as architecture in a void, where in reality, we're looking at a specific point in history, with a past and a future.



This, I believe, is the 'primary
> context' of the structures on the Giza plateau and
> the 'context' is important.

Context is indeed important. This is why I asked you to have a look at earlier pyramid construction work.


It is my opinion that
> these geometric forms were to act as a 'beacon', a
> 'sign' if you like, from the ancient Designers -

This is your idea: but where is the historical context for this: why is Giza the exception. There are so many other pyramids. Why do you focus on Giza and not Abu Sir for instance, or Saqqarah?


> they are 'pointing' us to the mathematics of the
> design first and foremost. Mathematics, unlike
> language or cultures, remains true to its meaning.

How do you know the ancient Egyptians had the same idea about mathematics. Be careful not to superimpose ethnocentric ideas on an ancient civilization. It's a non-starter!



> Are we to believe then that the Mortuary Temple
> was more important than the final resting place of
> the King?

I say more significance/importance was given to this temple. I'm not asking you to believe anything. Beliefs are irrelevant. The analysis of the evolution in mortuary architecture is what matters: you limit yourself to Giza: I ask you to look at the earlier Dynasties, early Fourth DYnasty, 5th Dynasty pyramids and later versions. The global picture is the key.


As stated in my extract (and my paper)
> - it is my contention that the pyramid complex at
> Giza had a pre-ordained 'sacred deadline' for
> completion.

Where is the cultural evidence, other than a few hits of circles and lines. How do we know this is intentional. Why is Giza an exception to the rest of the pyramid building history. Why is Giza an "entity", and Saqqarah an area with individual complexes? Why is Giza an entity, and Abu Sir an area with individual complexes?


Having constructed the first two
> large pyramids, it is possible that they were
> running out of time, hence the construction of a
> smaller pyramid.

It is irrelevant what you think is "possible". Look at the next steps in pyramid building history. Pyramids became smaller, mortuary temples became bigger.


However, the most important
> point here is the 'alignment' of this pyramid
> within the 'Giza Precession Wheel' (GPW). This
> alignment clearly indicates the date 2,512BC - the
> deadline for the completion of the complex which
> is the important point I am making.

Since your precession wheel starts from a circle which centre is Khafre's pyramid, and with the only point of relevance the NE corner of Khufu's pyramid, I can only ask the question why you chose this point. Why not another, bigger circle? You see, the circle is your choice; you have to prove this was an intentional message.


>
> I am aware of the 'quarry marks' and I do not
> consider them to be hieroglyphs in the true sense.
> Seems more like ancient graffitti. Unlike other
> monuments and tombs throughout AE, the pyramids
> remain glaringly and suspiciously devoid of such
> inscriptions.

You mean, unlike other, "later" pyramids...



> I had no intention of 'adding weight' to my
> mathematical proposition by citing other authors.
> - merely to demonstrate that there exist
> like-minded individuals. My mathematical
> proposition stands on its own merit.

Then this part of your text is futile. You need to construct a cohesive paper in which every word serves its purpose. If you want to get this published, you'll have to lose a lot of unnecessary side info.


>
> That there is an infinite discussion on the
> subject is revealing in itself.

No, it is not revealing. The mere fact that something is debated does not mean that YOU are correct. How you can get to a conclusion like this is beyond me.


I think my
> proposition is 'evidence' that they did know. It
> stares us in the face.

What you think is irrelevant. It doesn't stare me in the face at all. See previous points.
You need to look up what we understand as scientific evidence, because you seem to miss the point.


>
>
> The cricle perimeter hits the NE corner of Khufu
> AND G1a. When drawing a circle outwards from the
> centre of Khafre, we stop the circle when all the
> pyramids have been encircled.

Why?

This is our
> 'precession clockface'.

Why?


We can still make an
> alignment through Menkaure to the clock perimeter
> - Menkaure does not itself have to be positioned
> on the perimeter.

Why not?

Perhaps if the AE of the 4th
> Dynasty had more time and built Menkaure to the
> same dimensions of the other 2 pyramids, it (or at
> least its Queens pyramids) may well have made
> contact with the perimeter of the circle.

Oh, so now this argument, that you proposed earlier in this text, suddenly becomes an established point. This is simply your idea that they didn't have enough time. If the purpose is a big precession wheel, wouldn't you say time is irrelevant. If the idea is thousands of years older, a couple of decades won't harm!


>
> I don't say '...it misses the Sphinx...'. My
> paper sates that by precisely incorporating all
> the pyramids within the precession circle, the
> Great Sphinx ends up sitting precisly outside the
> precession circle.

What's the difference. I wasn't quoting but paraphrasing. Where's the difference in "the circle just misses the Sphinx", or "the sphinx sits precisely outside the circle". My point remains. The Sphinx is not precisely outside the circle: its butt is clearly in the circle. Is there some mathematical significance in the Sphinx' butt, perhaps? smiling smiley


Perhaps my use of the word
> 'precisely' is a little premature.

Thank you for acknowledging this: until you use a decent map, it is definitely premature.


However, I
> think the intention is perfectly clear and once I
> have used a better plan (as you suggest), I think
> this intention will be proved - precisely.

The intention is not clear to me. I see a circle you have drawn, and of which I don't see the relevance. I don't see why this circle is what they meant. If so, why didn't they just draw a circle on the ground: why pyramids and why not making the message more clear? In other words: where is the evidence all this was intentional: and no, your drawings are not sufficient.



>
> That the Sphinx faces the dawn of Leo has been
> proposed many times is also quite telling.

No, it's not. How can the mere existence of a debate be quite "telling" in your favour? You really need to check up on the ground rules of scientific research!


In his
> thesis on, "The Definition of the Babylonian
> Zodiac and the Influence of Babylonian Astronomy
> on the Subsequent Defining of the Zodiac", Robert
> Powell makes the following comment: "It is unknown
> through whom the innovation leading to the
> introduction of the zodiacal coordinate system
> into Babylonian astronomy took place. It was made
> possible by the observation of the heavens as a
> systematic program carried out over hundreds of
> years." So who told the Babylonians? Where did
> their knowledge come from? Clearly it seems that
> it existed before the Babylonians got hold of it.

MUST be the Egyptians, right? smiling smiley



> I believe my evidence shows that the Designers of
> the Giza complex had knowledge of this zodiac
> system and that the Sphinx is aligned to the dawn
> of the previous Age of Leo.

What you believe is irrelevant: evidence is what matters!

I shall be posting a
> drawing later that shows how the dates the Giza
> monuments are aligned to closely match the peaks
> in numerous scientific graphs of previous Earth
> catastrophes. These happened. There is too much
> scientific evidence to deny they happened.

I won't deny the existence of an ice age, for instance. It's the issue that this is "coded" in the Giza pyramids that's under debate.



> The plan existed independently of the reign of
> particular Pharaohs. That a particular Pharaoh
> lived and died during the construction of the plan
> is, in my mind, immaterial. Should we, for
> example, ascribe the building of the 'London Eye'
> to the reign of Queen Elizabeth II just because
> she happened to be the reigning monarch at that
> time. No, we shouldn't.

You're not getting it: Pyramids are tombs, in the first place: if these tombs were to be incorporated in the biggest project of all times, why didn't Djedefre build his pyramid at Giza. In fact, if the true purpose of pyramids is your precession wheel, why on earth would Djedefre build a "pyramid" somewhere else. Do you think he wanted to start his own wheel? smiling smiley

>
> Once again, many thanks for your critique. It is
> very much appreciated.
>

Most welcome.

All the best,

Gerd Vandecruys

------------------------------------------------
Amun: Co-Moderator
My TrekEarth Account

OK, so what's the speed of dark?
"Steven Wright"




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2006 03:21AM by Gerd VDC.
Subject Author Posted

Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 01, 2006 07:22AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Dave L December 01, 2006 07:32AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 01, 2006 07:39AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 01, 2006 07:42AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Dave L December 01, 2006 07:59AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 01, 2006 07:44AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 01, 2006 09:04AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Warwick L Nixon December 01, 2006 10:38AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Ronald December 01, 2006 12:43PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Warwick L Nixon December 01, 2006 01:01PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Ronald December 01, 2006 05:57PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Warwick L Nixon December 02, 2006 10:15AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Ronald December 03, 2006 04:45AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 12:29PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Katherine Reece December 03, 2006 12:33PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 03, 2006 01:30PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 04:47PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 03, 2006 05:09PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 06:27PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 03, 2006 06:34PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 06:42PM

PS

Anthony December 03, 2006 06:43PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 11:16AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Ronald December 03, 2006 05:32PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 01, 2006 12:54PM

WOW !!!!!!!!

Don Barone December 01, 2006 04:08PM

re Eureka

Warwick L Nixon December 02, 2006 10:56AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Jammer December 01, 2006 04:22PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 01, 2006 04:36PM

A Question to Creigs

Don Barone December 01, 2006 05:20PM

I do...

Anthony December 01, 2006 06:49PM

Re: I do...

Don Barone December 01, 2006 09:55PM

Re: I do...

Anthony December 02, 2006 06:15AM

Re: I do...

Don Barone December 02, 2006 08:11AM

Re: I do...

Anthony December 02, 2006 05:02PM

Re: I do...

Tommi Huhtamaki December 02, 2006 05:24PM

Re: I do...

Anthony December 02, 2006 06:15PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Jammer December 02, 2006 01:04PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 02, 2006 02:09PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Jammer December 04, 2006 12:59PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 01:05PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 04, 2006 01:07PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Jammer December 04, 2006 01:14PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 03, 2006 04:52PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 03, 2006 04:57PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 06:46PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 03, 2006 07:45PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Anthony December 03, 2006 08:05PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 03, 2006 08:26PM

ROFLMAO

Anthony December 03, 2006 08:49PM

Re: ROFLMAO

Don Barone December 03, 2006 09:16PM

Re: ROFLMAO

creigs1707 December 03, 2006 09:23PM

If I may say....

Katherine Reece December 03, 2006 09:48PM

Re: If I may say....

Greg Reeder December 04, 2006 12:19AM

Re: If I may say....

Katherine Reece December 04, 2006 12:45AM

Re: If I may say....

Rebby December 04, 2006 01:33AM

Re: If I may say....

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 05:28AM

Re: If I may say....

Don Barone December 04, 2006 06:52AM

Re: If I may say....

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 07:39AM

Re: If I may say....

C Wayne Taylor December 04, 2006 07:43AM

Re: If I may say....

Gerd VDC December 04, 2006 06:58AM

Re: If I may say....

lobo-hotei December 04, 2006 05:25PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

C Wayne Taylor December 04, 2006 07:34AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 01:31PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

C Wayne Taylor December 04, 2006 03:49PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 06:28PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

C Wayne Taylor December 04, 2006 08:27PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 08:57PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

C Wayne Taylor December 05, 2006 07:13AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Don Barone December 05, 2006 08:08AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

C Wayne Taylor December 05, 2006 10:24AM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Jammer December 05, 2006 01:52PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

Ronald December 05, 2006 06:15PM

Methodological flaw - CAT related

Anthony December 07, 2006 01:21PM

Re: Giza Plateau - A New Interpretation that Incorporates Orthodox Theories

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 07:45AM

Some thoughts

Gerd VDC December 04, 2006 08:29AM

Re: Some thoughts

Hermione December 04, 2006 08:41AM

Re: Some thoughts

Gerd VDC December 04, 2006 09:09AM

Re: Some thoughts

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 12:15PM

Re: Some thoughts

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 12:28PM

Re: Some thoughts

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 01:02PM

Re: Some thoughts

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 01:09PM

Re: Some thoughts

Anthony December 04, 2006 01:30PM

Bingo!

Anthony December 04, 2006 12:55PM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 01:10PM

Re: Bingo!

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 01:17PM

Re: Bingo!

Anthony December 04, 2006 01:17PM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 02:37PM

Re: Bingo!

Anthony December 04, 2006 03:42PM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 06:49PM

Re: Bingo!

Katherine Reece December 04, 2006 07:15PM

Re: Bingo!

Anthony December 04, 2006 08:02PM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 08:45PM

Re: Bingo!

Bob December 04, 2006 10:13PM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 05, 2006 08:46AM

Re: Bingo!

Anthony December 06, 2006 11:17AM

Re: Bingo!

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 04:46PM

Re: Bingo!

Katherine Reece December 04, 2006 11:08PM

Re: Some thoughts

Hermione December 04, 2006 01:22PM

Giza wheel continued...

Gerd VDC December 05, 2006 03:18AM

Re: Some thoughts

Don Barone December 04, 2006 01:09PM

Re: Some thoughts

Warwick L Nixon December 04, 2006 01:15PM

My question...

Morph December 04, 2006 11:06AM

Re: My question...

Don Barone December 04, 2006 01:24PM

Re: My question...

Morph December 04, 2006 01:44PM

Re: My question...

creigs1707 December 04, 2006 02:21PM

Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 05, 2006 08:45AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Hermione December 05, 2006 09:18AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Gerd VDC December 05, 2006 10:05AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 05, 2006 11:00AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Gerd VDC December 05, 2006 11:06AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 05, 2006 11:59AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Hermione December 05, 2006 12:03PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 05, 2006 11:21AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

C Wayne Taylor December 05, 2006 10:45AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Gerd VDC December 05, 2006 11:08AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 05, 2006 10:53AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Rebby December 05, 2006 05:51PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 05, 2006 06:19PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Morph December 05, 2006 07:12PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 05, 2006 07:22PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Don Barone December 05, 2006 07:32PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 07:53AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 05, 2006 07:54PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Bob December 05, 2006 11:24PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Morph December 06, 2006 05:11AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 07:51AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Gerd VDC December 06, 2006 08:16AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 08:40AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Gerd VDC December 06, 2006 08:59AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 09:56AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 06, 2006 10:29AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Morph December 06, 2006 12:24PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 02:03PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

C Wayne Taylor December 06, 2006 02:04PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 02:23PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

C Wayne Taylor December 06, 2006 04:38PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 04:52PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

C Wayne Taylor December 07, 2006 04:50AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 05:30AM

Final word

Gerd VDC December 07, 2006 06:34AM

Re: Final word

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 07:38AM

Centroids, Ruffled Feathers, and the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus

Anthony December 06, 2006 04:45PM

Re: Centroids, Ruffled Feathers, and the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 05:16PM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece December 06, 2006 05:21PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 06, 2006 10:31AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Don Barone December 06, 2006 10:55AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 06, 2006 11:03AM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Don Barone December 06, 2006 12:35PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 02:16PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Hermione December 06, 2006 02:22PM

For those like me ...

Don Barone December 06, 2006 08:22PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 02:26PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

Katherine Reece December 06, 2006 02:27PM

Re: Centroid Alignment Theory (CAT) Stands

creigs1707 December 06, 2006 02:35PM

CAT - The Last Post

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 09:08AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

C Wayne Taylor December 07, 2006 10:24AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

Anthony December 07, 2006 11:04AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 11:06AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

Anthony December 07, 2006 11:32AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 11:46AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

Anthony December 07, 2006 11:52AM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 04:58PM

Thread closed

Katherine Reece December 07, 2006 05:00PM

Re: CAT - The Last Post

C Wayne Taylor December 07, 2006 12:54PM

Re: ROFLMAO!

creigs1707 December 07, 2006 11:42AM



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