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November 16, 2019, 9:32 pm UTC    
February 22, 2018 11:45PM
Khazar-khum Wrote:
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> Way to miss the whole point, Lee.

Looks like you need a refresher course in Levallois 101 also:

That fact was already settled earlier on this list. Since you forgot also, I'll repost it again. It was already a given that Neanderthals did have abstract thinking as demonstrated by Levallois flaking. The problem then (and still is now in spite of the latest paper which seems to ignore this fact also), not *if* they had abstract thinking, but how much?

To repeat:
[www.hallofmaat.com]

Lee Olsen Wrote:
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> > "Neanderthals had large brains and made complex
> tools

[www.sciencemag.org]
"The jawbone was excavated in the same sedimentary layer as thousands of “museum quality” handaxes and flint tools, says co-author Mina Evron of the University of Haifa. The tools were crafted with a sophisticated method called Levallois technology, which requires abstract thinking. Some researchers have suggested the method was invented by H. sapiens and may mark our species's presence and early steps out of Africa."


[en.wikipedia.org]
"Scientists consider the Levallois complex to be a Mode 3 technology, as a result of its diachronic variability."

How much "abstract thinking" is required to make a drawing on a cave wall?
[cdn.shopify.com]
But we know both modern and Hn brains kept on growing for a longer period of time than the age of the girl drawing on her bathroom wall.

[advances.sciencemag.org]
"Our findings are consistent with important genetic changes affecting early brain development within the H. sapiens lineage since the origin of the species and before the transition to the Later Stone Age and the Upper Paleolithic that mark full behavioral modernity."

full behavioral modernity = mode 5 tools
extinction Hn/archaic modern humans = mode 3 tools
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> You don't find the animal head & hindquarters
> to be 'representational'? What do you call it,
> then?

Way to miss the whole point KK. Since Australian ancestors left Africa *before* the new paper's dates, and Australians have Neanderthal DNA in their system, then contact had already been made by moderns prior to them getting to Australia. The paper is deceptive in not pointing this out.
IOW, we know what we can do with our art genes, so what could a 50/50% Neanderthal hybrid do with 50% of our genes? There had to be some 50/50 hybrids out there at some point in time. Just because they haven't found AMH bones in Iberia...are they saying Neanderthals couldn't walk out of the caves there and mate with AMH somewhere else? I always thought Neanderthals could walk, maybe I was wrong or maybe those who wrote the paper don't know what a post hoc fallacy is?

> Oh, BTW, most modern art critics will tell you
> that abstract art is 'truer' and 'purer' art than
> anything representational. You see, it breaks art
> into its components, and then uses that to tell
> of emotions.

And those modern art critics probably can't explain "How much "abstract thinking" is required to make a drawing on a cave wall or make a Levallios point or how much help modern DNA was to Neanderthals?











Subject Author Posted

Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 22, 2018 03:59PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 22, 2018 06:00PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 22, 2018 06:04PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 22, 2018 06:17PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 22, 2018 06:18PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 22, 2018 06:43PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 22, 2018 08:11PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 05:03PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint doodles

Lee Olsen February 26, 2018 02:44PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint doodles

Khazar-khum February 27, 2018 03:56PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 11:35AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 02:33PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 05:09PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 05:14PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 05:29PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 25, 2018 09:40PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 10:18PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 27, 2018 03:59PM

Neanderthals couldn't paint representational art.

Lee Olsen February 27, 2018 08:45PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 27, 2018 11:28PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 28, 2018 05:50PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 28, 2018 11:46PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 27, 2018 11:56PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 27, 2018 11:37PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 26, 2018 04:08PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 27, 2018 04:12PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Charlie Hatchett March 06, 2018 08:20PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum March 10, 2018 01:57AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 26, 2018 05:04PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 11:14AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 02:34PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals or hybrids or early AMH could paint.

Lee Olsen February 26, 2018 10:59AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals or hybrids or early AMH could paint.

Lee Olsen March 16, 2018 09:12AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 06:19PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Rick Baudé February 24, 2018 06:43PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 07:24PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Rick Baudé February 24, 2018 07:29PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 08:14PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Flow didn't paint on USA cave walls

Khazar-khum February 25, 2018 09:44PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 10:26AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 02:36PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 24, 2018 04:17PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 05:14PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 25, 2018 09:44PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 06:03PM

Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Lee Olsen February 22, 2018 08:28PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Khazar-khum February 22, 2018 10:46PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Lee Olsen February 22, 2018 11:45PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Khazar-khum February 23, 2018 11:37PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 06:36PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Khazar-khum February 25, 2018 09:43PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 09:53PM

Re: Not so fast Hoffman et al. his oldest dates have been challenged

Lee Olsen September 24, 2018 08:32AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 22, 2018 10:50PM

Re: Scientists didn't confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 23, 2018 12:49AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 22, 2018 11:03PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Rick Baudé February 23, 2018 12:07AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 23, 2018 08:09AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 23, 2018 11:43PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 08:57AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 02:39PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 23, 2018 11:40PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 10:00AM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 02:42PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 05:12PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 24, 2018 05:16PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 05:48PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 24, 2018 06:03PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Khazar-khum February 25, 2018 09:48PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Lee Olsen February 25, 2018 10:50PM

Re: Scientists confirm that Neanderthals could paint.

Hermione February 26, 2018 05:46AM



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