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November 15, 2019, 8:45 pm UTC    
October 06, 2018 01:32PM
Rick Baudé Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lee Olsen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Rick Baudé Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> >
> > Rick wrote: "Funny thing about proteins they
> break
> > down over time."
> >
> > Which calls into question discoveries of
> possible
> > protein on claimed Acheulean age hand axes
> from
> > California.
> >
>
> Oh yeah that's why I used the qualifying word
> 'possible'in the title.

How science works is you test it.

>And that's exactly the
> reason I pulled the paper down was because

The dog ate your homework?

I
> couldn't rule out contamination as a contributing
> factor.

I never said it wasn't protein, how do you know it wasn't protein until tests are made? You can spot protein with a microscope and not even an expensive one at that. It's the tests that are expensive and that can't be done visually, so outright rejection visually is not very scientific.

Abstract

"My examination of the broken bone fragments in the Cerutti Mastodon Site collection indicates that the hypothesis of breakage by modern heavy machinery is invalid, as a thick precipitate of soil carbonate on the broken surfaces proves that the breakage was indeed very ancient."

That paper hasn't been pulled down; with real papers you can't do that, only at Disneyland. In fact the guy who invented the very test for the type of dating that was done sort of agrees they probably have the dating close enough to declare "ancient" so Ruth Gruhn "possibly" has the carbonate it right also. That's why I didn't read Ruth's paper, she already had double independent verification, so I have no idea what she did for tests.

However, big trouble for the Cerutti team. Both the dating originator, Ruth and multiple other specialists say the dating is probably correct, but the site is not demonstrated to be human caused. So much for assuming the upright tusk is evidence, just another cute one-of-a-kind anomaly.

After further researching green fractures, it turns out Allan (who I didn't disagree to start) still has it pretty close IMO.

Allan Shumaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of the discussion on this thread concerns
> lack of cut marks. However this implies that the
> tusks were removed at the same time as the bones
> were broken for marrow extraction. In elephants
> the root of the tusk is a "pulpy cavity that
> contains nerves, tissue and blood vessels". If the
> tusks were removed later (maybe a year) after the
> flesh had decayed it may have been easy to remove
> the tusks by simply twisting them in the socket to
> loosen them.

Lee Olsen wrote (in reply to Allan's hypothesis): "After thinking on this more, I think you may be on to something. Not only does this logic apply to the tusks, but the teeth also. What happens to a lot of teeth in many case in an old skull [www.ancient-origins.net] many times they eventually fall out on their own. It makes no sense at all for a hominin to be pulling teeth anymore than breaking the molars open for morrow. I mean try pulling a fresh molar out of even a juvenile mastodon. We know they didn't have dentist pliers. It is even less likely the molar got broken bashing it out of the skull because neither the molars or the tusks have to be removed to get at the brain and tongue. Did they break the jaw or the skull to get at the morrow there?"

Yep, tusks falling out later, right along with the tooth scatter, the new, better, scenario for the upright tusk placement and an ancient date (it's all starting to fit together). I really need Ruth Gruhn to be correct.









Subject Author Posted

Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 26, 2018 06:30PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 26, 2018 07:07PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 26, 2018 07:48PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 26, 2018 08:05PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 26, 2018 08:16PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 26, 2018 08:30PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 26, 2018 08:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 26, 2018 08:42PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 26, 2018 08:51PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 27, 2018 03:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 28, 2018 09:10AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 29, 2018 04:57PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 03, 2018 12:44PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 03, 2018 05:12PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 08:51AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:15PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 03:02PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 10:33AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 11:31AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 27, 2018 03:02PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 28, 2018 08:59AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 28, 2018 10:26AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 28, 2018 02:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 29, 2018 12:29PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 07:20AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 10:34AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 11:18AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 11:20AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 11:39AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 29, 2018 02:35PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 29, 2018 05:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 29, 2018 08:09PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 29, 2018 09:54PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 08:37AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 08:21AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum September 30, 2018 02:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 03:56PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 30, 2018 04:02PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 04:21PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 30, 2018 04:22PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 06:18PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé September 30, 2018 06:50PM

**Moderation note**

Hermione October 01, 2018 01:13AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 01, 2018 09:06AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 01, 2018 11:44AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 01, 2018 02:16PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 01, 2018 06:24PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 02, 2018 10:19AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 02, 2018 02:47PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 03, 2018 07:52AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 03, 2018 05:14PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 08:52AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 03, 2018 12:54PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 03, 2018 12:52PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 03, 2018 02:53PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 03, 2018 05:19PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 03, 2018 09:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 08:27AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 08:46AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:14PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 02:18PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:28PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 02:34PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:44PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 02:52PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:56PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 03:02PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 08:19PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 10:30PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 05, 2018 03:23PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 06, 2018 06:23AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 06, 2018 03:07PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 07, 2018 08:36AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 02:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 02:44PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 02:52PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 02:59PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 03:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 04, 2018 03:08PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 03:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 04, 2018 03:46PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 06:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 08:16PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 10:21PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 10:59PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 08:35AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 09:57AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 10:27AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 10:56AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 12:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 12:25PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 01:38PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 06, 2018 11:26AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 06, 2018 01:32PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 06, 2018 03:12PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 07, 2018 08:38AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 06, 2018 06:51PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 07, 2018 09:02AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 07, 2018 05:46PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 07, 2018 11:22PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 10:22AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 11:17AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 11:37AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 01:43PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 08, 2018 02:38PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 03:53PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 06:10PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 06:47PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 06:59PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 08:03PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 08:49PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 09:23PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 12, 2018 07:45AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 08, 2018 08:00PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 08:41PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 09, 2018 05:02PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 09, 2018 06:09PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 06:54PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 08:01PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 08, 2018 08:22PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 09:34PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 09, 2018 05:03PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 09, 2018 06:43PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 10, 2018 04:24PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 10, 2018 05:57PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 11, 2018 03:56PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 11, 2018 08:12PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Khazar-khum October 12, 2018 08:40PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 12, 2018 09:25PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 08, 2018 07:49PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 06, 2018 08:41PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 07, 2018 09:45AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 08:26PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 04, 2018 10:04PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 04, 2018 11:13PM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 09:57AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 10:08AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 11:26AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 12:08PM

Re: nice try, but sorry

Lee Olsen October 05, 2018 01:05PM

Re: Observations Concerning Fruit Salad

Lee Olsen October 10, 2018 09:05AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Tommi Huhtamaki October 05, 2018 01:32AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Rick Baudé October 05, 2018 10:17AM

Re: Observations Concerning the Cerutti Mastodon Site

Lee Olsen September 30, 2018 07:45AM



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