Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors

June 6, 2020, 9:11 pm UTC    
February 09, 2020 02:10PM
Hi Alex,

Re your last question:

I wonder - what you think about the idea of orienting the Old Kingdom pyramids to different circumpolar stars?

Whilst we await a response from Chris, I note that you reject the idea of I.E.S. Edwards on bisecting the angle of circumpolar stars with respect to an artificial horizon, so it is appropriate to propose some other method.
(I never liked the idea of some-one standing at the centre of a circular wall. I don't think this method would be precise enough due to compression of vertebrae etc.)

There is a stone statue not far away from where I live which has a cylindrical hole through the eye to the back of the statue in order to spy what the designer had in mind on the landscape below the hill where the statue stands.

It is possible that true north was determined directly through a long tube fixed at 30 degrees to the horizontal and rotated so that a selected star traced a concentric path within the circumference of the tube.

A hole could have been drilled through a rectilinear block with the block mounted on a rectilinear platform free to rotate of a flat surface. As such the top of the platform would have needed a slope of 30 degrees to the horizontal, or a rise of 1 cubit (28 digits) for run of 48½ digits.

A set of rectilinear blocks could have had holes of different diameters so that selected stars appeared close to the edge of the holes in their circular paths around the pole of the night sky, and so that an initial viewing of a particular star could have started with a larger hole to frame the selected star easily.

The east and west sides of the rectilinear platform would then be close to the line of the north-south arc of the meridian allowing extension of either side as a straight line along the ground.

This method only yields true north, but stretching a cord across the diameter of the cylindrical hole, on the far side from the viewing point, would allow determination of the maximum elongation east or west with the cord in the traditional vertical orientation. This could have been achieved by placing a weight on the end of the cord so that the cord is indeed stretched into a vertical line.
(I don't like the notion of a horizontal cord because it is not so easy to be sure of the horizontal and there is no natural stretching.)

The platform would then need to be rotated as the star moves in such a way that the star remains just behind the vertical line. This would then give the approximate angle of maximum elongation on the ground. In subsequent determinations, night after night, the platform would get closer and closer to the angle where the star was just eclipsed by the thin cord. In this method it would have been easy to align the cord to a diameter marked on the end of the hole.

In my solar model of the Great Pyramid the pyramid should have been aligned just over 3 arc minutes west of due north as a theoretical model, but I don't disagree that other Old Kingdom pyramids might have been directed at a particular star if you can show a correlation between stars and pyramids assuming a difference of no more than say 5 arc minutes between theoretical values and observed values.

I don't think the Great Pyramid was built when Alpha Draconis was 3 arc minutes from the pole if it ever got so close because I have a solar model. It is, however, possible that the architect was also remembering a time when Alpha Draconis was so close to pole, perhaps 200 years before the pyramid was built. I don't have a model to date the pyramid as mentioned previously, but it seems unlikely that the pyramid was built at that time if a solar method could give a precise angle without needing to resort to a building a precise instrument in the manner suggested above.

The notion of holding a stretched cord at arm's length to get the azimuth seems impossible if it is claimed that the angle was determined to with a few arc minutes, but a precise instrument, as outlined above, could have been used to determine the azimuth for the more difficult task of determining the angle when two circumpolar stars became aligned vertically.

Its no use just saying the AE determined true north with enviable accuracy, or dismissing a possible method as more in keeping with the modern mind, because you will just be left with an easy and precise solar method. The hour priests may have pretended to get a sighting at night in no more than an elaborate ceremony in which the surveyors were smiling without the risk of being seen on a dark night without the moon.

Mark



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2020 02:23PM by Mark Heaton.
Subject Author Posted

Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione December 10, 2019 11:41AM

Re: Sirius, Alpha Draconis and Great Pyramid

Mark Heaton December 14, 2019 02:11PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 29, 2020 03:20PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

cladking January 29, 2020 05:50PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hans January 29, 2020 07:51PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

cladking January 30, 2020 12:54PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 01:11PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren January 30, 2020 07:25AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 11:59AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren January 31, 2020 03:31AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 31, 2020 06:11AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 04, 2020 03:03AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 06, 2020 08:29AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 11, 2020 07:42AM

Complimentary Theory

engbren February 17, 2020 04:00AM

Re: Complimentary Theory

keeperzz February 17, 2020 04:42PM

Re: Complimentary Theory

engbren February 17, 2020 09:52PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione January 30, 2020 12:35PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 30, 2020 01:17PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Hermione January 30, 2020 03:15PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

robin cook January 31, 2020 12:21PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz January 31, 2020 06:23PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

robin cook February 01, 2020 05:21PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 02, 2020 04:12PM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 05, 2020 10:49AM

Re: Star shafts

cladking February 05, 2020 11:35AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 03:00PM

Re: Star shafts

GChase February 05, 2020 03:42PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

GChase February 05, 2020 05:27PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using the KC star shaft

GChase February 06, 2020 12:06PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using the KC star shaft

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:35AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:21AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 07, 2020 06:01AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 08, 2020 08:22AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 08, 2020 12:41PM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 08, 2020 10:26PM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 08:05AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 12:42AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 04:21AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 07:47AM

Re: Check for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 09:38AM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

GChase February 09, 2020 12:33PM

Re: Dating the pyramid using QC Star shafts

Kanga February 10, 2020 01:19AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 10:31AM

Re: Star shafts

keeperzz February 06, 2020 03:33PM

Re: Star shafts

Hermione February 12, 2020 01:08PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 03:28PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 09, 2020 03:47PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 09, 2020 06:34PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 08:25AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 10:32AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 10, 2020 11:06AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 10, 2020 02:12PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 10, 2020 08:56PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 11, 2020 09:23AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

robin cook February 12, 2020 10:23AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 12, 2020 01:00PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

GChase February 13, 2020 05:06AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 14, 2020 05:07AM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

GChase February 14, 2020 04:21PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

keeperzz February 15, 2020 01:34PM

Re: Target for KCS shaft

Kanga February 10, 2020 05:32AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Kanga February 01, 2020 10:47PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 02, 2020 04:39PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Kanga February 07, 2020 05:05AM

Radiocarbon dating for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 01, 2020 02:07PM

Re: Radiocarbon dating for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 03, 2020 09:31AM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 07:05PM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 13, 2020 11:52AM

Re: Subsequent Radiocarbon Paper for the Old Kingdom

keeperzz February 13, 2020 03:10PM

Re: Khufu boat

keeperzz February 14, 2020 04:10AM

Re: Khufu boat

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 12:44PM

Re: Khufu boat

keeperzz February 15, 2020 05:28PM

Re: Khufu boat

Mark Heaton February 16, 2020 03:01PM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

GChase February 02, 2020 04:35PM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

keeperzz February 03, 2020 05:52AM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

GChase February 03, 2020 09:18AM

Re: The Puzzle of Khafre

keeperzz February 03, 2020 09:37AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 07, 2020 07:50PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 05:47AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

engbren February 08, 2020 06:54AM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 01:17PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

keeperzz February 08, 2020 12:05PM

Re: Egyptian starry tales. Part I: "Stretching of the cord" ceremony for aligning Old Kingdom pyramids

Mark Heaton February 08, 2020 03:23PM

Re: Orientation of the pyramids

keeperzz February 09, 2020 12:08PM

Re: Orientation of the pyramids

Mark Heaton February 09, 2020 02:29PM

Re: Short explanation for graphs

keeperzz February 11, 2020 07:49AM

Re: Short explanation for graphs

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 04:12PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 03, 2020 10:30AM

Re: Applying the Method

Pistol February 03, 2020 12:45PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 12:35PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 03, 2020 03:46PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 03, 2020 04:25PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 12:49PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 04, 2020 01:05PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 04, 2020 01:16PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 05, 2020 07:08AM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 05, 2020 03:50PM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 05, 2020 04:32PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 06, 2020 10:23AM

Re: Applying the Method

GChase February 06, 2020 11:51AM

Re: Applying the Method

robin cook February 06, 2020 05:41PM

Re: Applying the Method

Chris Tedder February 06, 2020 01:46PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 07, 2020 01:31PM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 09, 2020 02:10PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 10, 2020 05:45AM

Re: Applying the Method

Kanga February 10, 2020 08:48AM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 10, 2020 11:09AM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 10, 2020 05:39PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 11, 2020 10:11AM

Re: Applying the Method

Mark Heaton February 11, 2020 12:42PM

Re: Applying the Method

Warwick L Nixon February 11, 2020 12:57PM

Re: Applying the Method

keeperzz February 11, 2020 03:53PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 12, 2020 03:16PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

keeperzz February 13, 2020 08:28AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 13, 2020 12:37PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Hermione February 15, 2020 07:59AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 03:09PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory

Hermione February 16, 2020 04:18AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Mark Heaton February 16, 2020 03:44PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 16, 2020 06:24PM

Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hermione February 17, 2020 05:31AM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hans February 17, 2020 01:14PM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Hermione February 17, 2020 01:23PM

Re: Graham Hancock and Precessional Numbers

Lee Olsen May 27, 2020 08:37PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 17, 2020 11:18PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 06:24AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 18, 2020 09:50AM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 12:23PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

Hermione February 18, 2020 05:06PM

Re: A complementary theory to your theory - Lockyer

M. Williams February 27, 2020 10:45PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

keeperzz February 15, 2020 01:06PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

Mark Heaton February 15, 2020 02:28PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

keeperzz February 17, 2020 04:05PM

Re: Exact calculations for the main graph

Mark Heaton February 18, 2020 04:35PM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login