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June 3, 2020, 9:56 pm UTC    
July 28, 2008 05:21PM
Clive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MJ Thomas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Could these people have achieved what they
> did
> > only using maths up to the levels we see in
> the
> > Mathematical Papyri (Rhind , Moscow et
> al)...
> > I find the answer to be a resounding yes.
>
> That's a given MJ.
> To cut, shape and position stones requires the
> tools and labor for cutting, measuring and
> positioning...that's all...no contest.
>
> But it is the planning of quantity,
> location/placement and sizing of these stones that
> tells the story.
> IOW...the "design" of the site overrules the
> process of assembly...and it's the design that
> includes ratios indicating knowledge of the
> diameter to circumference association.

It is the design element that I have in mind, Clive; and the onus is on you to show that the appearances of said ratios in the designing are intentional and not coincidental.


> > I am waiting for somebody to come up with
> > unequivocal evidence of 4th into 5th Dyn
> Egyptian
> > architecture that could not have been
> designed
> > without maths skills beyond the Rhind
> papyrus,
> > etc., and therefore without knowledge of
> > irrational pi, Phi, Pythagorus, etc.
>
> Keep Pythagoras out of it...not relevant...born
> 2000 years after the fact.
> As for phi...I have no idea why people, such as
> yourself, keep introducing this ratio...never
> did...never will like the concept.

I mention pi, Phi and Pythagoras merely as examples of the knowledge the Pyramid Builders need not necessarily have possessed to achieve what they did.


> Here is the problem...
> First:
> It is a fact that you do not know if there is/was
> a design, therefore your personal statement is
> meaningless....'

I'm not sure what you are referring to here.
If you are thinking in terms of a pyramid and its passages and chambers, then obviously deliberate designing was involved - try creating a pyramid with passages and chambers without plans...
But if you are referring to an overall plan/diagram in the layout of the Giza pyramids, then nobody (and that includes you, Clive) knows for a fact whether or not such a plan was ever intended.


> And that being true, then whatever
> you do claim, with regards to the site, is no more
> than an assumption on your behalf...that’s simple
> logic. Again...no contest.

Of course it is an assumption, Clive, just as almost anything you or anybody else claims about the site is an assumption.
Without contemporary textual evidence assumptions are all we can make - though some assumptions are seen as more sound than others.


> Second:
> When you are shown multiple examples of the same
> ratio it is up to you to prove it
> coincidental...because...the ratio is factual and
> cannot be altered.

No, Clive, this is where you keep going wrong.
It is for you to show how the repeated appearance of a ratio in the dimensions of a structure was (or at least could have been?) intended and is not simply the by-product of a different design technique.
Assuming I understand your work correctly, you have some of your ratios appearing between two completely separate parts of the Pyramid and its passages and chambers.
My thinking on this is that if the appearance of the ratio (whatever it may be) was intentional, then it is perfectly reasonable to expect there to be a fairly logical sequence in the use of it in the designing or planning of the structure.
For example, I would consider it more likely for the dimensions of the Niche in the Queen's Chamber to be somehow derived from the dimensions of the Queen's Chamber itself than, say, the length of the roof of the Grand Gallery.


> That's why these structures are
> so big and made of stone...they knew it is human
> to be lazy. There was never anything inside and
> they didn’t want anything destroyed. What you see
> is what you get.

The idea that Khufu's pyramid - or, indeed any pyramid - has mathematical/geodesical/astronomical knowledge intentionally incorporated and or encoded in its dimensions for use by a future generation is something I find rather ludicrous.
This is mainly because it is always far from clear which and whose future generation was supposed to benefit from this 'secret' knowledge.
Are we really to believe that Khufu's architect knew that some four-and-a-half thousand years after his time people from outside Egypt would start turning up at the edifice, equipped with sophisticated surveying equipment and set about discovering his people's 'secret' knowledge of the Heavens, etc.?


> But...given the chance, we would destroy them
> completely. Visit Meroe, Sudan and see what we are
> capable of doing to smaller pyramids.

But, Clive, we humans have had some four-and-a-half thousand years in which destroy the pyramids at Giza and elsewhere.
If we wanted to destroy them, then don't you think we would have done so by now?

MJ
Subject Author Posted

The importance of ratios

Clive July 20, 2008 12:27PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 20, 2008 05:27PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 20, 2008 09:22PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 20, 2008 10:03PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 20, 2008 10:17PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 20, 2008 11:06PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 21, 2008 09:16AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Jiri Mruzek July 21, 2008 03:08PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Jammer July 21, 2008 03:24PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 08:45PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Jammer July 24, 2008 02:56PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 25, 2008 10:21PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 08:39PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Jiri Mruzek July 22, 2008 01:50AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 08:31PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 21, 2008 09:44PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 10:06PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Ogygos July 21, 2008 01:56AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 08:05AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Ogygos July 21, 2008 10:36AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 21, 2008 10:06PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 24, 2008 05:47PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 25, 2008 09:59AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 25, 2008 11:09AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 25, 2008 09:40PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 25, 2008 10:25PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 25, 2008 09:51AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 25, 2008 09:47PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 26, 2008 07:01PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 26, 2008 10:01PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 26, 2008 11:09PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 27, 2008 11:33AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 27, 2008 09:10PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 28, 2008 11:16AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 28, 2008 11:29AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 28, 2008 12:24PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 28, 2008 07:13AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 28, 2008 11:04AM

Sorry my error Clive I am really sorry ...

Don Barone July 31, 2008 08:26AM

Re: Sorry my error Clive I am really sorry ...

Clive July 31, 2008 11:57AM

Hold on ! maybe it is not an error.

Don Barone July 31, 2008 12:05PM

Re: Hold on ! maybe it is not an error.

Clive August 02, 2008 10:53AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 26, 2008 11:37PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 27, 2008 12:15PM

Re: The importance of ratios

Don Barone July 27, 2008 08:19AM

Re: The importance of ratios

Clive July 27, 2008 12:18PM

Perfect ratios

Clive July 27, 2008 12:26PM

Re: The non-importance of ratios

Ronald July 23, 2008 09:49AM

geometry problem can anyone help?

Ogygos July 27, 2008 08:26AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 27, 2008 07:55PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Ogygos July 28, 2008 12:45AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 09:08AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Hermione July 28, 2008 09:39AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 11:22AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Hermione July 28, 2008 11:30AM

Thanks Hermione (n/t)

Clive July 28, 2008 05:08PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Ogygos July 28, 2008 04:11PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 05:01PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Ogygos July 29, 2008 10:41AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 29, 2008 10:48AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 28, 2008 11:36AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Don Barone July 28, 2008 12:27PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 28, 2008 12:59PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 28, 2008 02:00PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 04:05PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 28, 2008 05:21PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Warwick L Nixon July 31, 2008 12:02PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Ogygos July 31, 2008 04:46PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 04:46PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 28, 2008 05:29PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 08:30PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 03:59AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

C Wayne Taylor July 29, 2008 04:22AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 01:08PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 05:37PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

lobo-hotei July 31, 2008 09:57AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

L Cooper July 31, 2008 11:56AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

lobo-hotei July 31, 2008 12:08PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 31, 2008 03:16PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 31, 2008 01:51PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 29, 2008 09:01AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 12:17PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 29, 2008 12:58PM

Request ...

Hermione July 29, 2008 01:45PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 29, 2008 09:10AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

lobo-hotei July 29, 2008 10:15AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jammer July 29, 2008 10:43AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

lobo-hotei July 29, 2008 11:37AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 28, 2008 07:45PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 03:23AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jon_B July 29, 2008 04:15AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 04:53AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 11:06AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Jon_B July 29, 2008 12:04PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 12:33PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 01:01PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 08:44PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 30, 2008 09:40AM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

Clive July 29, 2008 12:35PM

Re: geometry problem can anyone help?

MJ Thomas July 29, 2008 01:06PM



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